If wind power were so great, we'd still be using sailing ships to transport everything across our oceans. We need to move into the future with dispatchable power sources like SMR's. Thank you for exposing the reality of the unreliables, John Droz Jr.
Wind energy is killing millions of birds...and only works when it is windy. It is totally unreliable. However, our government and corporations are always looking for some scam to rake in billions without giving a thought to the end results...harming the environment or wiping out other species. They don't even care about their own species!!! All they care about is the money!
Barbara: Yes. I factored in the unreliable part (auxiliary power sources needed). I did not specifically address birds being killed, as it is it very difficult to put an economic value on birds. On the other hand, it has been done for bats, which I mentioned.
Your item No. 3 is far more of a consideration than most Americans understand. Every single dollar of debt has a negative value that is ridiculous if we analyze it properly. It is precisely the opposite of compound interest but the same formula is at work, only in reverse.
If we look at this logically, the main question must be, “ When will this debt be eliminated?” And, based on reality, the answer is, “Never!” So, the calculation of the long term damage of each debt dollar gets confused since the key calculation involves time.
But, to simplify and be super conservative, let’s assume the debt will be with us for 60 years and the FED can borrow money at 4.8% like the 30-year treasury is today. This says the long term negative present worth of each dollar is $16.67! In other words, the unfunded liability of our national debt is $607 Trillion if we never take on another dollar of debt.
The key point I am making is every dollar of debt our Congress agrees to take on needs to be multiplied by 16.67 to give us an accurate real cost to us tax payers.
My friends, this is a realty that somehow is missed daily by about 300 million Americans. Somehow we allow our politicians to sell us the idea that kicking the debt can down the road is a workable solution. This is a part of our education system that is missing and requires some critical analysis.
When they vote to allocate $20 Billion to green energy, is it worth $333.4 Billion in reality? That is the real question. How is that $333.4 Billion going to be paid back to us “investors”? They say green energy is an investment in our future. I say, “Bullshit.”
John, I hope your "Critical Thinking" insights are studied by some appropriate group of Team-Trump problem solvers because they apply to all the mega corruption we seek to root out.
The 1619 Project and Green New Deal are so audaciously false that only in a population with such low critical thinking skills could this Woke poison take root in the first place.
Cultural Marxists have spent decades striving to demoralize us and destabilize our nation via their "long march" through our institutions. They are a formidable force we must defeat.
Free speech plus a fearless cohort of critical thinkers who articulate what is needed in clear terms are (in essence) our only chance for Faith, Freedom, and Family to prevail.
To me, this means we must be ready, willing, and able to march to the sound of the LIES of the Left and destroy them again and again...which you are doing again and again. Semper Fi.
Jud: Yes, we are hoping that the new Trump team (Chris Wright, Elon, Vivak, etc.) will be more focused on important matters like the true cost of wind and solar. As explained above, this fiasco now is costing us in the neighborhood of a Trillion dollars! Enough already!
Great article, Charles. Many people are against wind power for all the "sense of place" reasons, killing eagles, polluting the ground, etc. My major problem with wind is the cost, and you've reinforced my opinion with this article. Without subsidies, wind power would be nonexistent. The same with solar. Both have use in remote locations where no other option exists, however neither can compete without government assistance. It's time we let the market decide instead of politicians!
Jack: Not sure who Charles is (this is John writing). Yes, there is no legitimate reason that wind and solar should be categorized as "politically favored." Some might think that they are critically important in "saving the planet" but that is a lie, just like their low cost claim is. See this for more details about that charade <https://wiseenergy.org/Energy/Wind_Other/Wind_&_AGW_Full.pdf>.
John, Charles is the author of the article I was replying to. I read your article - that's a great piece! I'd like to share it with my readers if you don't mind. There are a lot of people who should see it. Jack
My biggest concern with wind is its natural mismatch with electrical demand. On the hottest days of the year, by definition, the wind does not blow (if the wind were blowing, the temperatures would be moderated by the natural air movement—hottest days tend to have calm air). In these conditions the utility has to shop for the most expensive back-up sources with little, or no help from wind.
A few years ago, I looked at the wind performance of the Bonneville Power Administration (BPA), an enormous provider in the Pacific Northwest. Of their 11,000 MW system, they had installed 3,000 MW of wind. On the peak day (I think it was 2011) guess how much wind was actually operating during peak demand? None!
Kimball: Agreed. As a former CEO of a utility company, you were well-positioned to see first-hand the adverse consequences of adding an uncontrolled source to the Grid that has to be balanced every second.
You left out 5 important issues. COST OF MAINTENCE, DEICING, OIL 450 GALLONS EACH THAT LEAK INTO THE SOIL, STORAGE OF DEFUNCT WINDMILLS THAT DO NOT DECOMPOSE, EFFECT ON SOIL THAT GETS CONTIMATED FROM THE MINE SHAFTS, AND DEAD EAGLES OR OTHER BIRDS OF PREY, that are a natural enviromental pest control.
Well done. Time to do one on solar panels, loss of farm land, jobs, product, near schools, on Military Bases. Concrete heat, storm damage, maintence, and how do they effect our bodies. 5 G towers ping my hearing aids.
AR: Yes those are costs, but this article was about costs to taxpayers and ratepayers. Things like de-icing and maintainence are not billed to either taxpayers or ratepayers.
If wind power were so great, we'd still be using sailing ships to transport everything across our oceans. We need to move into the future with dispatchable power sources like SMR's. Thank you for exposing the reality of the unreliables, John Droz Jr.
SM: TY.
So, in your opinion, after having done this analysis, is the EROEI (Energy Returned On Energy Invested) for wind energy greater or less than 1:1 ?
John: This is an economic analysis, not an energy one.
Wind energy is killing millions of birds...and only works when it is windy. It is totally unreliable. However, our government and corporations are always looking for some scam to rake in billions without giving a thought to the end results...harming the environment or wiping out other species. They don't even care about their own species!!! All they care about is the money!
Barbara: Yes. I factored in the unreliable part (auxiliary power sources needed). I did not specifically address birds being killed, as it is it very difficult to put an economic value on birds. On the other hand, it has been done for bats, which I mentioned.
Your item No. 3 is far more of a consideration than most Americans understand. Every single dollar of debt has a negative value that is ridiculous if we analyze it properly. It is precisely the opposite of compound interest but the same formula is at work, only in reverse.
If we look at this logically, the main question must be, “ When will this debt be eliminated?” And, based on reality, the answer is, “Never!” So, the calculation of the long term damage of each debt dollar gets confused since the key calculation involves time.
But, to simplify and be super conservative, let’s assume the debt will be with us for 60 years and the FED can borrow money at 4.8% like the 30-year treasury is today. This says the long term negative present worth of each dollar is $16.67! In other words, the unfunded liability of our national debt is $607 Trillion if we never take on another dollar of debt.
The key point I am making is every dollar of debt our Congress agrees to take on needs to be multiplied by 16.67 to give us an accurate real cost to us tax payers.
My friends, this is a realty that somehow is missed daily by about 300 million Americans. Somehow we allow our politicians to sell us the idea that kicking the debt can down the road is a workable solution. This is a part of our education system that is missing and requires some critical analysis.
When they vote to allocate $20 Billion to green energy, is it worth $333.4 Billion in reality? That is the real question. How is that $333.4 Billion going to be paid back to us “investors”? They say green energy is an investment in our future. I say, “Bullshit.”
John, I hope your "Critical Thinking" insights are studied by some appropriate group of Team-Trump problem solvers because they apply to all the mega corruption we seek to root out.
The 1619 Project and Green New Deal are so audaciously false that only in a population with such low critical thinking skills could this Woke poison take root in the first place.
Cultural Marxists have spent decades striving to demoralize us and destabilize our nation via their "long march" through our institutions. They are a formidable force we must defeat.
Free speech plus a fearless cohort of critical thinkers who articulate what is needed in clear terms are (in essence) our only chance for Faith, Freedom, and Family to prevail.
To me, this means we must be ready, willing, and able to march to the sound of the LIES of the Left and destroy them again and again...which you are doing again and again. Semper Fi.
Jud: Yes, we are hoping that the new Trump team (Chris Wright, Elon, Vivak, etc.) will be more focused on important matters like the true cost of wind and solar. As explained above, this fiasco now is costing us in the neighborhood of a Trillion dollars! Enough already!
Great article, Charles. Many people are against wind power for all the "sense of place" reasons, killing eagles, polluting the ground, etc. My major problem with wind is the cost, and you've reinforced my opinion with this article. Without subsidies, wind power would be nonexistent. The same with solar. Both have use in remote locations where no other option exists, however neither can compete without government assistance. It's time we let the market decide instead of politicians!
Jack: Not sure who Charles is (this is John writing). Yes, there is no legitimate reason that wind and solar should be categorized as "politically favored." Some might think that they are critically important in "saving the planet" but that is a lie, just like their low cost claim is. See this for more details about that charade <https://wiseenergy.org/Energy/Wind_Other/Wind_&_AGW_Full.pdf>.
John, Charles is the author of the article I was replying to. I read your article - that's a great piece! I'd like to share it with my readers if you don't mind. There are a lot of people who should see it. Jack
Jack: All of my writings are in the public domain, so you are welcome to pass them on — with proper attribution.
Thank you
My biggest concern with wind is its natural mismatch with electrical demand. On the hottest days of the year, by definition, the wind does not blow (if the wind were blowing, the temperatures would be moderated by the natural air movement—hottest days tend to have calm air). In these conditions the utility has to shop for the most expensive back-up sources with little, or no help from wind.
A few years ago, I looked at the wind performance of the Bonneville Power Administration (BPA), an enormous provider in the Pacific Northwest. Of their 11,000 MW system, they had installed 3,000 MW of wind. On the peak day (I think it was 2011) guess how much wind was actually operating during peak demand? None!
Kimball: Agreed. As a former CEO of a utility company, you were well-positioned to see first-hand the adverse consequences of adding an uncontrolled source to the Grid that has to be balanced every second.
You left out 5 important issues. COST OF MAINTENCE, DEICING, OIL 450 GALLONS EACH THAT LEAK INTO THE SOIL, STORAGE OF DEFUNCT WINDMILLS THAT DO NOT DECOMPOSE, EFFECT ON SOIL THAT GETS CONTIMATED FROM THE MINE SHAFTS, AND DEAD EAGLES OR OTHER BIRDS OF PREY, that are a natural enviromental pest control.
Well done. Time to do one on solar panels, loss of farm land, jobs, product, near schools, on Military Bases. Concrete heat, storm damage, maintence, and how do they effect our bodies. 5 G towers ping my hearing aids.
AR: Yes those are costs, but this article was about costs to taxpayers and ratepayers. Things like de-icing and maintainence are not billed to either taxpayers or ratepayers.