John, you often commit the pedagogical error of "arguing from authority." What you appear to miss is that bureaucracies always expand and as they expand, their effectiveness diminishes--an inverse relationship. If the DOEd continues to exist, it will eventually fall under the aegis of the Demoncrats and they will use it as they have always used it: to wit, to indoctrinate. Also, the closer governance is to "home," the more effective it will be. Therefore, responsibility for education should be "reserved to the states," per the Tenth Amendment, where it lay prior to the DOEd's creation in 1980...IOW, when nearly all high school graduates were functionally literate in both reading and math. As for making a comparison between COVID policies and eliminating the DOEd, I submit that is a false analogy. Respectfully, John Rosemond (johnrosemond.com)
John: TY for sharing your opinion — and for not having the temerity to argue from authority.
1 - Ideally closer to home government should be better. That said in this case the States' malfeasance is MUCH worse than DOEd's. For example, at least 95% of the reason for poor student performance is due to States' actions or inactions. That's one problem of making generalities. If you believe differently, simply name one State — out of 50 — that has a high quality K-12 Education product.
2 - Saying that all agencies will eventually be taken over by the Left leads to the conclusion that we should get rid of ALL State and Federal government agencies. That does not strike me as very sensible. BTW, that argument is exactly what the Left wants us to believe — so that we effectively give up without even genuinely trying. We don't see them practicing the reverse, do we?
3 - Saying that all agencies will eventually be taken over by the Left also ignores the good work that can be accomplished in the meantime. For example, four years of a productive DOEd could literally revolutionize the US K-12 education system, making it FAR superior to that of any other country on the planet. See <https://criticallythinking.substack.com/p/the-us-dept-of-education-going-forward> for TEN major examples of profoundly significant K-12 education work that could be done very soon by a reformed DOEd. Almost NONE of that has been done by the States to date, and there is no evidence that this would change — as most State Education Departments have been taken over by the Left.
The bottom line is that we have a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to make MAJOR improvements to our deplorable K-12 education system. Considering what is at stake it makes no sense to me to: a) give up without even making a serious effort at trying, and b) to turn the K-12 system over to 50 organizations that have (over the last 20+ years) consistent produced second-rate results, which are trending down.
PS — The comparison to our COVID policies is almost an exact parallel. Fear, misinformation, an uninformed public, so-called "experts" with hidden agendas, etc., etc. all conbining to lead to horiffically bad COVID and K-12 Education policies.
When government was not involved in education it was much better. Most school curriculum comes out of a California model. Not good. There is no reason for every state to have the same program. That is part of the problem now. You are supposed to be in the business of preparing children for life. Not necessarily for college. But life. As far as thinking criticality or otherwise the system stinks. Children learn in different ways and at different levels. Read Dr. Leo Buscaglia's series of books on education.
I am not advocating for every state to have the same program — which is mostly what we have now, due to States bot having any creativity, etc. For example, 49 of the States have adopted all or almost all of the NGSS — an inferior set of Science Standards. DOEd had nothing to do with that!
What DOEd should do are things like: pay for quality research, provide leadership, establish goals, etc. How States meet goals would be up to them.
William T. Lynch. There is much that can be said. ... E.g., with regard to point 4, Georgia’s gaps can be compared with North Carolina since both take the same NAEP tests. That’s a starting point. But the critical issue that is missed is that the test scores must be properly evaluated. States and government refuse to use the correct dimensionless metrics. (They use point differences or “Pass%” differences.) Such metrics cannot measure absolute knowledge (which cannot be measured) but only relative knowledge (which can be quantitatively measured). All internal tests employed by GA or NC should be providing the same gaps as did their NAEP tests. (Tests do not change a testtaker’s actual knowledge, and there are known rules that apply to creating a “good” test.) And the overriding problem is the impossible burden on a teacher who, typically, can have a relative knowledge distribution of 30 (+/- two standard deviations). To provide significantly greater annual improvements for ALL students that knowledge factor of 30 in a single classroom must be reduced to 5. ALL students will have a greater core of knowledge when they complete high school than they do now only if, by grade 4 or 5, there are classrooms and teachers dedicated to the lower 20% in actual achievement, the middle 60%, and the highest 20%. It is the Principal’s (and parents’) job, as well as the teacher’s, to make sure that students with potential up their motivation to move into a higher bracket. And a significant spread in teachers’ salaries should be demanded, based not on student achievement, but upon enhancements. Metrics exist for evaluating what an individual teacher consistently achieves in the year-to-year enhancements by her/his students.... bandglynch@gmail.com
William: You are getting into the weeds a bit here. That said your good concerns are again where a national education agency would be best to provide clarification and leadership on, rather than 50 States each doing their own thing.
Well, That's exactly what I was saying. I interacted with the Congressional Committee (but the Senators have their staff respond with blah blah blah). The Committee didn't seem to understand their responsibility to be sure the children were educated productively. My perfect replacement for NCLB was rejected only because the poorly performing States chose to act as if they were being bullied into taking tests that were not related to THEIR students. My proposal let them have their own State end-of-year tests, but to report limited results on those tests since those results could be readily checked off against the still-required NAEP tests. The Congressional Members simply caved to the States and ended up with no replacement for NCLB. A big mistake. WTL
John…excellent thinking in your Epoch article. A transformed and fixed DOEd would need to use its two big powers to impact states…their money (and the money of other agencies) and their bully pulpit. Without combining their new initiatives with their power, their initiatives are likely to be ignored by states…there are many historic examples of states ignoring the DOEd’s initiatives.
John, you often commit the pedagogical error of "arguing from authority." What you appear to miss is that bureaucracies always expand and as they expand, their effectiveness diminishes--an inverse relationship. If the DOEd continues to exist, it will eventually fall under the aegis of the Demoncrats and they will use it as they have always used it: to wit, to indoctrinate. Also, the closer governance is to "home," the more effective it will be. Therefore, responsibility for education should be "reserved to the states," per the Tenth Amendment, where it lay prior to the DOEd's creation in 1980...IOW, when nearly all high school graduates were functionally literate in both reading and math. As for making a comparison between COVID policies and eliminating the DOEd, I submit that is a false analogy. Respectfully, John Rosemond (johnrosemond.com)
John: TY for sharing your opinion — and for not having the temerity to argue from authority.
1 - Ideally closer to home government should be better. That said in this case the States' malfeasance is MUCH worse than DOEd's. For example, at least 95% of the reason for poor student performance is due to States' actions or inactions. That's one problem of making generalities. If you believe differently, simply name one State — out of 50 — that has a high quality K-12 Education product.
2 - Saying that all agencies will eventually be taken over by the Left leads to the conclusion that we should get rid of ALL State and Federal government agencies. That does not strike me as very sensible. BTW, that argument is exactly what the Left wants us to believe — so that we effectively give up without even genuinely trying. We don't see them practicing the reverse, do we?
3 - Saying that all agencies will eventually be taken over by the Left also ignores the good work that can be accomplished in the meantime. For example, four years of a productive DOEd could literally revolutionize the US K-12 education system, making it FAR superior to that of any other country on the planet. See <https://criticallythinking.substack.com/p/the-us-dept-of-education-going-forward> for TEN major examples of profoundly significant K-12 education work that could be done very soon by a reformed DOEd. Almost NONE of that has been done by the States to date, and there is no evidence that this would change — as most State Education Departments have been taken over by the Left.
The bottom line is that we have a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to make MAJOR improvements to our deplorable K-12 education system. Considering what is at stake it makes no sense to me to: a) give up without even making a serious effort at trying, and b) to turn the K-12 system over to 50 organizations that have (over the last 20+ years) consistent produced second-rate results, which are trending down.
PS — The comparison to our COVID policies is almost an exact parallel. Fear, misinformation, an uninformed public, so-called "experts" with hidden agendas, etc., etc. all conbining to lead to horiffically bad COVID and K-12 Education policies.
When government was not involved in education it was much better. Most school curriculum comes out of a California model. Not good. There is no reason for every state to have the same program. That is part of the problem now. You are supposed to be in the business of preparing children for life. Not necessarily for college. But life. As far as thinking criticality or otherwise the system stinks. Children learn in different ways and at different levels. Read Dr. Leo Buscaglia's series of books on education.
Carolyn: I've always liked Dr. Leo Buscaglia.
I am not advocating for every state to have the same program — which is mostly what we have now, due to States bot having any creativity, etc. For example, 49 of the States have adopted all or almost all of the NGSS — an inferior set of Science Standards. DOEd had nothing to do with that!
What DOEd should do are things like: pay for quality research, provide leadership, establish goals, etc. How States meet goals would be up to them.
William T. Lynch. There is much that can be said. ... E.g., with regard to point 4, Georgia’s gaps can be compared with North Carolina since both take the same NAEP tests. That’s a starting point. But the critical issue that is missed is that the test scores must be properly evaluated. States and government refuse to use the correct dimensionless metrics. (They use point differences or “Pass%” differences.) Such metrics cannot measure absolute knowledge (which cannot be measured) but only relative knowledge (which can be quantitatively measured). All internal tests employed by GA or NC should be providing the same gaps as did their NAEP tests. (Tests do not change a testtaker’s actual knowledge, and there are known rules that apply to creating a “good” test.) And the overriding problem is the impossible burden on a teacher who, typically, can have a relative knowledge distribution of 30 (+/- two standard deviations). To provide significantly greater annual improvements for ALL students that knowledge factor of 30 in a single classroom must be reduced to 5. ALL students will have a greater core of knowledge when they complete high school than they do now only if, by grade 4 or 5, there are classrooms and teachers dedicated to the lower 20% in actual achievement, the middle 60%, and the highest 20%. It is the Principal’s (and parents’) job, as well as the teacher’s, to make sure that students with potential up their motivation to move into a higher bracket. And a significant spread in teachers’ salaries should be demanded, based not on student achievement, but upon enhancements. Metrics exist for evaluating what an individual teacher consistently achieves in the year-to-year enhancements by her/his students.... bandglynch@gmail.com
William: You are getting into the weeds a bit here. That said your good concerns are again where a national education agency would be best to provide clarification and leadership on, rather than 50 States each doing their own thing.
Well, That's exactly what I was saying. I interacted with the Congressional Committee (but the Senators have their staff respond with blah blah blah). The Committee didn't seem to understand their responsibility to be sure the children were educated productively. My perfect replacement for NCLB was rejected only because the poorly performing States chose to act as if they were being bullied into taking tests that were not related to THEIR students. My proposal let them have their own State end-of-year tests, but to report limited results on those tests since those results could be readily checked off against the still-required NAEP tests. The Congressional Members simply caved to the States and ended up with no replacement for NCLB. A big mistake. WTL
John…excellent thinking in your Epoch article. A transformed and fixed DOEd would need to use its two big powers to impact states…their money (and the money of other agencies) and their bully pulpit. Without combining their new initiatives with their power, their initiatives are likely to be ignored by states…there are many historic examples of states ignoring the DOEd’s initiatives.
Don: Yes, it is assumed that DOEd would leverage their advantages as a national agency.
hopefully there will be traction from those willing to put their critical thinking skills on to reforms of the educational system.
Hopefully!